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Ignition switch ignorance - please help!

 
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Moominbus
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Location: Isle of Skye, U.K

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:14 pm    Post subject: Ignition switch ignorance - please help! Reply with quote

Hello all, I had better give a quick introduction. I once posted on here about my grand plans to convert my '73 camper to diesel and received some excellent advice, since then my van has grown into a rusty monstrosity and I decided to cut my losses and buy Rabbitboy's AFN engined van with a flipped passat box when it came up for sale at the end of last year. It has been doing sterling service but I ran into trouble last month, sorry to waffle on but I don't know if this is relevant or not, it was a freezing morning with snow on the ground and the van wouldn't start. I suspected the cold as the cause so tried a jump pack to get it going - no luck, it had an aftermarket tracker/immobilizer which I removed as I didn't really want it and it would be one more thing eliminated. Eventually I tested the starter, I had voltage from the ignition so I removed the starter and bench tested it - the solenoid had packed in. I bought a replacement from a scrap dealer, tested it before fitting, got it on and all was fine for about a week when van wouldn't start again. I took the starter off and tested it to find the motor had packed in, the motor is easier to remove than the solenoid so I took the decent motor off the old starter and put it on the newer one, it tested fine so I fitted it and we were off again... for about three days when i went to start the van and got nothing. Before taking the starter off (I'm pretty quick at it now...) I tested for voltage from the ignition and got nothing, I tested the wire at the first connection after the switch and also got nothing. All the lights on the dash work as they should as well as hazards, wipers, etc.
So here is where I need the help, I have a lot of questions. First off is it just a coincidence that each component of the ignition/starter is failing in turn? I think the current problem is the ignition switch, I am clueless about the modern system, will a replacement switch with keys work or are chips and transponders and other magic going to conspire against me? Do you think my guess is correct or could it be magic chips and such causing me grief already? If I can't easily change the ignition switch, could I wire in a starter button instead?
Thank you if you made it this far, and apologies for my ignorance regarding the finer points of auto-electrics. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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Moominbus
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have tried expanding my knowledge a bit and, as far as I can tell, the switch part of the ignition is probably a fairly straight forward swap. I will try and get the existing switch out tomorrow and see if anything is obviously wrong, once I can see what type it is I'll get a replacement and go from there. I'll keep this updated and any suggestions are still welcome.
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Moominbus
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

O.K, I got as far as the anti-tamper screw/bolt holding the ignition in place. I've ordered some bolt extractors but they will probably take a few days to arrive.
What I have is the Passat key barrel attached to the original T2 ignition switch with the Passat reciever coil around the barrel. If the new ignition switch doesn't sort the problem then I think it must be the receiver at fault, a bit of searching on Youtube found a video of someone diagnosing the reciever using a FM radio in close proximity to the ignition so that should give me a clue if it gets that far. I'm quite confident that it isn't the chip in the key causing grief as I tried the spare (which gets regular use) and got the same result - I can't believe that both have failed at the same time.
I'll update this when I have more to tell.
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Kai
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moominbus wrote:
O.K, I got as far as the anti-tamper screw/bolt holding the ignition in place. I've ordered some bolt extractors but they will probably take a few days to arrive.
What I have is the Passat key barrel attached to the original T2 ignition switch with the Passat reciever coil around the barrel. If the new ignition switch doesn't sort the problem then I think it must be the receiver at fault, a bit of searching on Youtube found a video of someone diagnosing the reciever using a FM radio in close proximity to the ignition so that should give me a clue if it gets that far. I'm quite confident that it isn't the chip in the key causing grief as I tried the spare (which gets regular use) and got the same result - I can't believe that both have failed at the same time.
I'll update this when I have more to tell.


My 2 pence,

My receiver won’t work when attached to the original T25 ignition barrel. Even with the immobiliser chip strapped to the key.

The only way mine will work is the AFN key, barrel, and receiver as one component. I can’t swap the T25 ignitional barrrk inplacw of the AFAN. It just won’t read the chip/signal this won’t start. I found this out maybe 3 years ago
So my memory is vague.
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Moominbus
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply Kai,
I've tried, and failed, to post a coupe of pictures of what I have. I'll try to explain as best as I can. The bus is a '77 model so the ignition is housed in a metal casing surrounded by a two part plastic housing. Projecting out of the top of the metal housing is the barrel and receiver collar (as one piece) from the passat - the collar is sat atop the metal housing and has a wire leading to a little black box under the dash. Looking up into the underside of the metal ignition housing is an electrical connector with four wires, this appears to be the standard vw ignition set up. Once the connector is pulled off the switch itself is visible and again appears to be the usual vw type.
I don't know if the passat barrel has mated up nicely with the switch or if there is something between the two to let this happen. I'll find out when the necessary tools turn up. Whatever system I have was working, and without any problem for quite some time.
What I am especially clueless about is if the symptoms I have (power in but no power out) are true of both a failed switch and a failed receiver? I presume that if the receiver does not receive the correct code/frequency or whatever then the power to start the vehicle is prevented but I don't know how it is able to do that at the switch, as the key is still free to turn the switch - which is making mechanical connections? Does the interrupted power supply happen elsewhere?
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Moominbus
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm back on the road! The ignition switch swap did the trick. I suppose the faulty switch could have caused the earlier starter failure as well. The Passat barrel fitted nicely into the bus ignition switch without any intermediate bits which makes for a neat installation.
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